Skip to main content

tv   Politics Public Policy Today  CSPAN  April 22, 2013 10:00am-12:01pm EDT

10:00 am
i would argue the tax code is probably not the place to do that the most effective way. host: let's go to york, pennsylvania, republican line. i had agood morning, relatively personal question for you. i see you are a keen observer of the oil industry considering the fact that fsil fuels are not all leave feeling our cars but giving a desolation to the environment, do you believe man will develop environmentally sound modes of transportation out of sheer will to be accountable as inhabitants of earth? host: i will give you the last comment. guest: that's a good question. there are multiple ways of thinking about this. some would argue that the government should support certain industries and drive that an ovation. others argue that should be a
10:01 am
market-based mechanism whereby the most effective solution to some of these problems will be achieved when we are indeed in dire need of them and there is the financial and economic incentive to do so. i'm not sure where i come down on that. host: anthony costello, we appreciate you joining us today. guest: thank you for having me. that host: is our show today and we will take you live to the senate judiciary committee hearing on the immigration overhaul legislation. [captioning performed by
10:02 am
national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> good morning. we welcome everybody here.
10:03 am
and i am glad that we have so nyere. we have many others who are watching. we are course, live streaming this on the judiciary website. as i always do. aresume that others covering it. i would note that there are many people here who have a very strong feelings, and i appreciate that. certainly, there are thirts that give different views and you have every right to do that, but i would urge you, as i always do in hearings, whether supportive of my views or opposed to my views, there will be no demonstrations or blocking the people. people have waited in line for a long time to be here at this hearing and make sure the url respectful of those behind you.
10:04 am
resumed hearings on comprehensive immigration reform from last friday. of pollock, was scheduled to be here, but as what happened in massachusetts, she could not be here. today's hearing is our fifth immigration hearing this year. it will add to the more than 40 zero, that weur have chair during the last few congresses on these matters. today we will hear about how the bill impacted our primary technology industries and the views of those who have long fought for immigration reform. and from those who have opposed the proposal. we will hear from the religious and business community.
10:05 am
we will hear from scholars, law enforcement advocates, witnesses who believe in equality for all only rightystem, not but in the nation's interest. it is long past time to perform the immigration system. we can close in 2006 when se kdy a smccain lead a biparti. in the course of those effor toy following -- we believe that immigrants like women and african-americans before them have rights in this country. the time is right for a new civil rights movement. we believe that a nation of immigrants rejects its history and heritage when millions of immigrants are confined to a second-class system and all americans are debased by such a system. the time has come for comprehensive immigration reform. my dear friend, senator kennedy, was right. inish the house had joined
10:06 am
2006 to complete what we started back then, but i am glad that senator mccain has once again joined. it is long past time to get this done. we need an immigration system that lives up to american values, helps to write the next chapter in american history by reinvigorating our economy and enriching ournity. the kind of country that attracted my maternal grandparents here. or my wife's parents, when they came here and became citizens, productive citizens. in vermont immigration has promoted cultural riches, settlements, exchange, economic development, center programs, and tourism and trade with our friends in canada. agricultural workers support our farmers and growers and many have become part of the farm
10:07 am
families that are such an integral part of the vermont communities. today's witnesses, two vermonters talking about the needs of farmers and the challenges they face. the national tourism trade is critical to a border state, like vermont. now, let me point out one thing that has troubled me a great deal. last week opponents of comprehensive immigration reform began to exploit the boston marathon bombing. -- newnewfoundlander englander. i spent a lot of time in boston growing up and do so today. friends and relatives there, i urge restraint in that regard. they have enriched this country from our founding. i and vermont we welcome our neighbors, just as other states have welcomed immigrants to
10:08 am
america. is minnesota, vietnamese, cuban-americans, texas, florida, new jersey, or utah. our history is full of these stories of salvation. let no one be so cruel as to try to use the heinous acts of the young men last week to derail the dreams and futures of millions of hard-working people, who bill before us the strengthening of national security by allowing us to focus our security and enforcement efforts against those who would do us harm. cantion as strong as ours welcome the oppressed and persecuted without compromising our security. inare capable of vigilance pursuit of these values and have seen the tremendous work that local law enforcement and federal law enforcement have done ie area.
10:09 am
i am so proud of them. what is behind this proposal today is the result of a siicant rking compromise. in addition, the bipartisan members who left the -- led the effort, i want to thank the senators for their work on the agriculture provision. i would urge everyone on both sides to consider their example as we move forward on this. too often in the recent past this committee has broken along partisan lines on compelling issues. we saw all the republican senators on this committee opposed the reauthorization of the violence against women act. fortunately, with the help of nearly half the republicans in the senate and a great number of republicans in the house, we were able to enact that important legislation this year. now, we have three committee hearings and four markups with
10:10 am
extensive negotiations on gun laws. the republicans in this committee oppose the efforts to close the gunshot loopho. restrict -- tor enact tougher restrictions. immigration this to reform. the challenge now is hours in the committee. the challenge is really for all of america. let this committee set an example to bring to the senate the conscience of the nation, the opportunity to create an immigration system worthy of american values. senator grassley? want to avoid partisanship, i would say let's be very deliberate. and i think you have been very deliver it so far. if you continue in that deliberation i do not think you have any partisanship.
10:11 am
no of the to take fact that when ppod gun legislation i did not accuse you of using the morristown killings as an excuse. and i do not hear any criticism of people when there are 14 people killed in a west texas -- in west texas, a man taking a vantage of that tragedy to warn tout more government action make sure that fertilizer are safe. i think we are taking advantage of an opportunity when once in 25 years we deal with immigration to make sure that every base is covered. today we continue our discussion on the immigration bill that was unveiled last wednesday. work by a bipartisan group of senators. asy tly stated, a
10:12 am
starting point in a process that is going to have to be very deliver live. because we were very deliver live in 1986 and you can see that we screwed up bau a th p we only had three people crossing the border unlawfully. now there are 12 million people that have. as some of the authors of that bill have emphasized, the border security and economic opportunity and immigration modernization act is a starting point. now, there are 92 other senators that must get their chance to amend and improve this bill in a deliberative process. let me begin by saying that a critical part of the bill we are discussing is the first 59 pages. as people read through it, i hope you will pay special attention to those 59 pages. this is the border security section that triggers the
10:13 am
kickoff of legalization. because if we do not secureur o borders up from, there will be no political will and pressure from legalization advocates to do it later. the bill requires the secretary of homeland security within six months that a bill is signed into law to submit a comprehensive southern border security strategy, as well as a southern border fencing strategy. after those so-called plans are submitted to congress, the secondary can start processing applications to legalize the 12 million people in the united states. the result is that the undocumented become legal after the plan is submitted, despite the potential for the planned to be flawed and inadequate.
10:14 am
additionally, the bill provides $6.5 billion in emergency spending to be available for various border security enhancements, to be used under the discretion of the secretary. i understand the need for such an investment. there is no congressional input on either the secretary's plan and funding she will have at her disposal. i have not read every page in the bill yet, but from what i read i found a great deal of congressional authority delegated to the secretary. 1693minds me of the in theions of authority health care reform bill that makes it almost impossible for the average citizen to what might be coming down the road. more importantly, the bill does nothing to improve the metrics that this and the future administration will use to make
10:15 am
sure that the border is truly secure. congress passed a law in 2007 requiring that the 100% of the e 0%operationally controlled." president obama and secretary napolitano abandoned that metric. the bill before us weakens that law by only requiring the southern border to be 90% effectively secured. in some sectors. only the so-lled high risk sectors. what about the other six? before green cards are allocated to those here illegally, the secretary only has to certify that the security plans and fencing's are "substantially deployed, operational, and completed." if the secretary does not do her job and a commission is created to provide recommendations, this is just a loophole that allows the secretary to neglect doing the job.
10:16 am
another area of interest for me is employment verification measures. as i said before so many times, i was here in 1986 when we for the first time made it illegal for employers to hire undocumented individuals. i have been a champion for the e-verify system a staple in every workplace. it is an important tool to make sure that we have a legal work force. while i am encouraged, i am concerned that the provision will render the program is effective as an enforcement tool. the bill fails to put this system in place for everyone for almost six years down the road. after regulations are published, the biggest employers in the country will have another two years before they are required to check their employees. if we are legalizing and providing work permits within six months, why must we wait six years for everyone to comply? the system is ready to be
10:17 am
deployed right now nationwide. finally, the bill fails to require or even allow employers to verify their current work force and is only perspective in nature. also worried about the secretaries ane abily to exclude individuals with casual, sporadic, a regular, or intermittent employment. however it may be defined. why do we not define those terms? i do not know. i am interested in hearing from witnesses about whether the bill fixes for problems in the immigration system. everyone including myself says the system is broken. aside for legalization for those who are here and potentially for family members who are not and the clearing of backlogs, what does this bill do to fix the system? what will we do to make sure we are not back here in 30 years to revisit the issue?
10:18 am
will the new leader -- the new legal guest worker program be effective? will the -- will they be able to compete when growing the economy? will the american worfotry coir? wi we incentivize people to come here legally and leave once their visas expired? these are questions i have. in regard to border security, security is what is the basis of the sovereignty of any nation. we have independent authority over our -- we must have independent authority over our borders. thank you. thank you, we will hear first from arturo rodriguez, who served as the president of united farm workers since 1993 and has spent much of his life looking to establish their working conditions for agricultural workers in the
10:19 am
western united states. he is no stranger to this committee. center -- senator feinstein has worked so hard on these matters, as he has spoken of a great deal. please go ahead. >> i asked that senator cornyn e mites, he was not here on friday and is a ranking republican on the subcommittee. >> i would ask that he take that during his question time. i know that you were not here. incidentally i stated publicly that if i was in your shoes, i would not have been here either. i said that i would have -- >> i understand and appreciate the ranking member pointing out the reason for my absence. >> [indiscernible] >> my only concern is that it takes away time that i have four questions for the panel. >> no, i will be giving you an extra five minutes. >> i would be happy.
10:20 am
>> i did state publicly at the hearing that i commend you for being in texas and that is the place you had to be. >> me, too. >> senator feinstein? chairman leahy. g memberrassle oe subcommittee, f the opportunity to testify today. my name is arturo rodriguez and i have the opportunity -- have the honor of being the president of united farm workers of america. we think it is appropriate that we are here today, tomorrow marks the day that our founders passed away. here talking about the future of american agriculture. i wanted to give a special thank you to senator feinstein, who worked with for years, and senator hatch, who unfortunately could not be here today, who we worked very closely with over the last several months, who helped us in forging this agreement and bringing together and dealing with the crisis that
10:21 am
we face in american agriculture. hopefully this will be able to provide some stability in the years to come. last week both chuck connor to my left and i joined other ricultal workers in putting together a policy proposal from senators feinstein, hatch, and rubio to strengthen the agricultural industry. the proposal is part of the broader policy submitted last week by senator schumer, mccain, durban, gramm, the menendez, and rubio. it is great to see so many of you on this committee. thankfully so many of you are very committed to fixing a are broken immigration system. as someone born and raised in texas, i am proud that texas senators are on this committee and i hope to leave here today knowing that i can count on the
10:22 am
support of senators cornyn and support of those of you who we have already worked so hard with. farmers and farm workers have worked together over the last five months to represent very differen of the country in the interests of improving our nation's agricultural industry. but we have worked so hard to come together and we ask you as members of this committee to come together to support this proposal, because america's farms and ranches produce an incredible bounty that is the envy of the world. the farmers and farm workers that make up our nation's agricultural industry are truly heroic in their willingness to work hard and take on risk as the plant and harvest the food that we all read every day. both our immigration system -- our immigration system threatens our nation's food supply.
10:23 am
our nation's agricultural and lawyers have often been at odds over these policy issues. we have come together to unify the industry. we are in a unique moment in e nation's story. together with a lot of work, you on this committee can make the changes that we need to secure our nation's food supply. let me speak a little about what is at stake for the women and men who work in the fields. every day across america about 2 million men, women, and yes, even children, labor on our nation's farms and ranches producing our foods and vegetables. caring for our livestock. 600,000 of these americans are permanent legal reticent -- permanent legal citizens. myron rates are rarely recognized for bringing this rich bounty to our dinner tables and supermarkets. most americans cannot comprehend
10:24 am
the difficult struggles faced every day by farmworker families. increasingly, however, american consumers are asking government and the food industry for assurances that their food is safe, healthy, and produced under fair conditions. the life of a farmworker in 2013 is not easy. most farmworkers earned very low wages. housing in farming communities is often poor and overcrowded. federal state laws exclude farm workers from labor protections that others enjoy, like the right to join a union without being fired for it, overtime pay, many safety standards, and even workers' compensation in some states. exclusion from these basic federal laws of the 1930's is one of the sadder chapters of our history. with any new immigration policy, first and foremost we seek an end to the status quo poverty and abuse. we should not continue to treat
10:25 am
farmers and farm workers as second-class workers. we also know that any new immigration policy musconsider the future the work force upon which american agriculture depends. i want to think this committee very much for the opportunity to be here today, certainly i would answer any questions the committee might have in regards to this. thank you very much. >> thank you. as thet witness served president and ceo of the national council of farmer cooperatives since 2000 note -- 2009. he has served as acting secretary for the department of agriculture under the bush administration from 2005 to 2009. i might say on a personal note during the time i was chairman of the senate and when i was a ranking member that mr. connor was one of the most valuable staff people working there. he relies heavily on republicans
10:26 am
and democrats for his advice. go ahead, mr. conner. comments.ranking members, thankr the invitation to testify today on american agriculture and its need for immigration reform. as noted in your introduction, i am the president and ceo of a farmer co-ops, but i am also here as one of the founding members of the agricultural work force coalition. other nearly 70 agricultural organizations that represent the diverse needs of agricultural and employers across the country. we came together because increasingly finding enough workers to pick crops and care for animals has become the number one priority for many of our members across the country and all regions of the country. i dare say that for many producers, this legislation and the debate before us is more important to the survival of
10:27 am
their operations than any other legislation pending before congress. we have all seen reports of crops left to rot in the fields because they lacked sufficient workers to bring in the harvest. it is estimated that in california alone some 80,000 acres of fresh fruit and vegetable production has been moved overseas because of labor shortages in the u.s.. the problem extends to animal agriculture as well, a specialty dairy. a study found that labor among 60% of our farms producing milk in this country. without these employees, economic output from the study was estimated to of declined by $20,000,000,000.132999 workers lost their jobs. as many of you know, the formation of the awc represents a significant change of where we were in the past.
10:28 am
for many years american agriculture has spoken with mandti voices on the issue of immigration. today, as the awc, we speak with one unified voice. just thends beyond employer side. has also engage the united farmworkers union in a landmark agreement on immigration reform. my fat --easure that my fellow panelists today have joined us in supporting this legislation. thatlso like to emphasize reaching this agreement would simply have been impossible without the leadership and commitment and tenacity of senator dianne feinstein. senator feinstein joined in the process with marco rubio, senator bennett, and senator hatch, fostering the spirit of unity ultimately necessary for
10:29 am
this agreement. the agricultural provisions here represent our best chance to solve e sage in agriculture. the program outlined in the bill includes two key components, a blue cart program for current and experienced farmworkers, and a new agricultural these a program to meet labor needs. agriculture today admits the reality that a majority of our current work force is on documented, despite producer's good faith efforts to find the status of their employees. in the short term it provides that the current and the undocumented farm workers would be eligible to obtain legal status through this previously mentioned program. the legislation also realizes that in time these blue-collar workers will likely move on to jobs in sectors of the economy far beyond just agriculture. to insure that we do not end up
10:30 am
back restarted in five or 10 years, the bill includes flmaet based agricultural vprogram. importantly it will be administered by the u.s. department of agriculture. this is a significant change from the current regime administered by the department of labor, which has demonstrated a complete lack of understanding for agriculture and labor needs. details of the proposal can of course be filed in my life here written statement that was submitted for the record. thank you again for this opportunity to testify on behalf of some money in agriculture today. i look forward to your questions. >> thank you. it is good to see you back here on the hill. h2a business services for employers of agricultural workers based in
10:31 am
vermont, her family has a long tradition there. currently they own a 278 acre orwell, vt.. orwell is on one of the ettiest partsvermt d isertain one of e most significant agriculture parts of our state. mrs. eastman, please go ahead. >> good morning. my name is allison eastman. we have been an assistant gave way employer since 1993. first i would like to thank the chairman, the ranking member, and all members of the committee for providing me the opportunity to appear before you here today on behalf of the employers that i represent in vermont, new hampshire, and new york as an agent. through my work with u.s. apple i have traveled to washington, d.c. on several occasions, including two bipartisan meetings with members of t of each day.h took up the
10:32 am
there is a bipartisan agreement that the system is broken and the agreement as it stands is nearly impossible. the shared challenge faced by all farmers seems to be finding legal experience laborers who can provide the employers with coence predictability, and stability. the proposed bill would be useful as it no longer draws distinctions between seasonal and non-seasonal employers, like terry farmers, allowing dairy farmers to hire workers and their workers could even be considered for legalization. a common misconception is that these seasonal guest workers are displacing domestic workers. in our office we not only facilitate the application paperwork for employers but in some cases we process their payroll. there is a direct correlation andween the hiring of h2a domestic employees. they applied and petition in new york for 224 h2a workers.
10:33 am
the majority of these workers only work for eight weeks. these foreign workers created 50 year-round domestic jobs. their payroll for the fiscal year was just short of $2.4 million. without those workers, employers would not find it out -- would found -- would not find it possible to harvest crops according to quality. all employers will tell you that it requires appropriate timing and skilled labor to pick produce in such a way that provides for market opportunity. employers face many challenges in the current process and the majority agree that the issues are simply that the u.s. government does not understand ag. prior to date indeed, it is nearly impossible to get the workers here because of the convoluted process and on necessary notice of deficiency. these employers are in the
10:34 am
program because they want a legal, reliable, and experience work force. it would be most advantageous for usda to facilitate the process as they understand the needs. i think back to august of 2010, when there was the movement of workers because the form of notte notified by u.s. dol to let any of the jamaican workers enter the country due to an investigation. thank you, senator leahy's seasoned staff quickly sprung into action. each employer signed an affidavit that they would not take any deductions from the workers' pay. another 48 hours to 72 hours and we would have seen thousands of bushels of apples onheround nationwidea cropneedss to say, d not get sleep for a straight week knowing that crop insurance would not cover this type of loss. it is important to employers are 3 visas, as their wages
10:35 am
reported on a form w3. the pros certainly outweigh the cons. i think of the employers would be in favor of the written part of the bill, which refers to the ability to give preference to a loyal worker. also, the logic behind the proposed wage rate seems much more common sense and affordable. i believe that those undocumentedorkers follow as much of what is said abis. i would -- it would be a great opportunity for the employers be providing them with stability. the public does not seem to understand that these undocumented workers have been hanging to social security and medicare with the expectation that they would never benefit from it. it seems ludicrous to me to consider sending them all home, as it would significantly impact our social security and
10:36 am
medicare funding, at the same time losing the folks who support our farmers by doing jobs that american folks simply do not want to do. workers' share this in common -- they are here to work, they want to improve their lot in life, willing to do jobs that we cannot get americans to do. let's not forget that through doing these jobs that americans do not want to do they create jobs for u.s. domestic workers. i conclude by saying that a lid immigration bill will solve many of these ag issues atyers are facindathank you agae with this opportunity to testify and in a forward to answering any questions. >> thank you for using those real-world examples. i remember very well the question of the apple pickers. commenting.r
10:37 am
i may get credit, but they are the ones doing the work. i know that we had a lot of phone calls with you and others about that number. they did the legwork. vermontser i worry about -- vermonter i worry about those crops as well. these programs opened the temporary season for agriculture employers. if we can take care of someone who works, we can take care of apple pickers and dairy farmers. senator frank and and i both noted that you cannot tell the monthsving back from six to milk you again. they do not react well to that. would the proposed agricultural visa legislation
10:38 am
held seasonal and year-round workers? >> it would definitely help in for thes by allowing workers to not only be here year round, milking the cows -- i also think that when you face bo sideswhether they will come in for one employer or if they have the ability to move between employers, all of that seems very advantageous and, in effect, will take care of it -- of dairy farmers. when i look at how the h2a works today and i see how poultry, some of our friends are year round and they do have the ability to get h2a seasonal workers only because it is seasonal work that they are doing, however the milking the cows does not wait. >> we have seen a lot of dysfunction in the currents h2a program. should we be be -- should we be giving the department of agriculture a greater role?
10:39 am
>> absolutely. of most of us agree. i have a prime example that i think everyone can understand. when we petitioned for 18 peak seasonal workers to come and processed turkeys, the job an appointment was from 10/13 to 12/3. it was clear that they were doing this for thanksgiving. we received a notice from the department of labor and wanted to know who was doing these jobs when seasonal workers were not here. we had to respond with two years worth of payrsayi that it was true to prove that they were needed here to process these for thanksgiving. clearly did not understand that need. >> i understand. i wanted a couple of other examples for the record. i wanted to ask mr. rodriguez. an example from my own time, i know how he was one of the chief
10:40 am
negotiators in the discussion over agriculture and i would note again that everyone involved in this has had to give something. i hope people realize that this committee did a lot of giving on both sides. >> you think? on thisne area, though, area of legislation how will it prevent the exploitation of undocumented farm workers? all, i want to thank the people from the agricultural industry that we worked with. they are thereith us and d tohion the discussion in such a way that we really talked about these various issues. i think that all of us i and the end, the senator wanted to make sure that we had an agricultural industry in this country that was viable and that we could all respect and be proud of here in our nation.
10:41 am
it was very important for us to establish that agreement to honor the farm workers and the work they do, as well as ensure that the agriculture industry will have the supply of labour necessary for skilled farm workers needed to harvest their crops for the dairy industry and other industries. lotwe feel that there are a of protections here in the theslation that will insure protection of the existing farmworker labor force this year right now. they will have an opportunity to legalize themselves in the blue card program. ro gat opportunities for stabilizing their families, the industry, certainly the agricultural economy with information, providing a good product for american consumers. >> and living conditions. >> certainly those living conditions will be important.
10:42 am
again, we have worked closely with the industry and they were open to ensuring that that existed within the legislation. >> thank you. mr. connor, i know that she worked with a number of people that negotiated on your side. i know it was only give-and- take, working with senator feinstein, but when we get these reports you feel satisfied that this is going to be not only better for the country but betteror agrulture? >> there is no question. let me underscore that this i coromise piece of legislation fr oin the negotiations were extremely difficult but in the final product we have a balanced proposal the protect those farm worker interests, as described, but provides an opportunity for u.s. agriculture to do what it does best, producing high-
10:43 am
quality, low-cost products so that we do not continue to import more and more of our food supply, which is will we are so strongly against. we believe that it provides the opportunity because of legalized workforce through the blue card program for our existing trained and skilled workers, but equally the guest worker program is just as important with its at will seasonal livestock industries can get the workers in need in the future. >> senator grassley? >> i am going to make a little statement before i ask specific questions and if there is anything in my statements or questions that are incorrect, i hope you will correct me. it is my understanding that the program mirrors in part the main legalization program of the bill, giving undocumented people
10:44 am
up to 2.5 years to come forward and apply with a blue card program that shows the people have worked in agriculture for some time with the workers paying an initial fine of $100. also like in maine, the department of homeland security is regarded to enact with the opportunity to file an application. those needing proceedings get the same benefits during the time the application is pending. the undocumented personas been removed, cannot be obtained if it haseen denied without sufficient evidence that the undocumented worker gets another bite at the apple. my first question, this is the way that i read the bill and i want to tell me whether or not i am right or wrong. the bill provides legal status roadway, then they must wait five years before gaining citizenship, however the
10:45 am
secretary only has to submit a plan, not implement it. so, the border does not have to be secured before the millions of citizenship? would that be an accurate interpretation of the legislation before us? you want to start? i will follow? >> i would say, senator grassley, that my understanding of the legislation is that the agricultural workers will yes be given an opportunity to get legal status in this country immediately, however at the end of five years if they meet the requirements of working within the agricultural industry they will be able to gain permanent residency, not citizenship. the reason for that, the thinking behind that in the discussions was that the reality -- >> you do not have to justify that. it was in relationship to whether or not the citizenship for this group of people could be possible without the border
10:46 am
being secured. because of the time period. >> if i could supplement that very quickly, i will tell you that in order to be eligible for the blue card program, which can eventually be, as pointed out, converted into a green card, you need a history of substantial agricultural work already in this country. >> i gotcha. i want to get a quote here from someone commenting on the 1980 slick -- 1986 legislation following up on what the senator said, the extent that it is better for agriculture. and i do not disagree with what she said about that. because they're all -- there are lessons to be made from mistakes that were made in 1986. this quote from the marlowe, agricultural president of davis, "subsequent permanent
10:47 am
residence was rented from the farm work force since the early 1990's, reflecting a different phenomena. falling real wages and shrinking benefits encourage .orkers to seek non-farm jobs who left for work or were replaced by a newly authorized migrants. 1998 it was estimated so, mr.pecial workforce conner, are we not afraid or should we not be afraid that by giving this legal status to citizenship it will only repeat the mistakes made in 1986, putting the ag industry in the same position in the long run? in other words this comes about because the farmers come to us and say that they need these
10:48 am
workers. we give them the workers, they migrmee seople came i illegally afterwards. how do we avoid that mistake from 1986? >> your question is a great question and it goes to the heart fundamentally of the basis that has beention occurring in the senator's office for the last few months. the blue card program for our current and existing trained work force is an important component, but an equally important component is that we do not know with absolute certainty over the nde sohether it will be the staff of those workers receiving these low cost cuts. will they stay in agriculture to get the green card? they will have to stay in for a long time. the law requires that, but beyond that we do not know for sure and have had difficult negotiations over the second part, the guest worker program, making sure it is at will and at
10:49 am
contract to serve all of rie because we know at some point we are going to need additional workers beyond highly trained and skilled workers currently doing the work in this country likely to get a blue card. we have got to have a viable, worker -- workable guest worker program. the current h2a program is not that program. we had the blue card program and i can assure you with that we will be back here in a few years telling you we have a big problem. that is what we have to avoid. >> my time is up but we have to make sure we do not make the same mistakes it made in 1986. >> thank you. we have two unique situations on the committee. senator cornyn, absent. all of us understand why. there is no question that he should have been in texas and was. senator feinstein was head of the negotiations for both, and
10:50 am
will be given some extr dration for others. other senators, first feinstein, then we will go to sessions, i guess. >> thank you very much, senator. i very much appreciate this opportunity. thank you very much. i want to thank our witnesses here today. shocked, i hope that he will think, but for the negotiation of the specific wage numbers. arturo, it is hard to call someone by the last name when you have sat for so many hours together. so, i want you to know that i do not know a labor leader in this country who cares more about his people, who is more dedicated, more reasonable. i want you to know that it has just been a real pleasure to work with you. chuck, i can say the same thing.
10:51 am
the sessions were long, six to seven hours of the time. eiated over weekends. went back forth. through the course of this it was easy to sort of come out with what was necessary. deepas that there was a belief that a lot of the bls studies on wage rates were skewed, therefore we needed a new process. the farmers wanted specificity of wage. we have that for the farm worker. we have a way of increasing it. a way to put all of this under the secretary of agriculture will make his farm service agencies, which exist in each state, available. this should help farmers. the thing about the farm workers was to find a way to put it -- to recognize the skills that exist in farm work, to try
10:52 am
through a program to see what evolves out of this, a professional class of worker who cannot be proud. the blue card we expect. this is very rough. 700,000 to 1.1to million workers. exists for five years. you have to work ag for a specific number of days and hours for two years prior to the blue card. you would have to pay taxes, a fine, etc.. no major criminal activity and you getour blue card. and then you have to work another five years, dependent on the number of days per year. and then you get a green card. -- the h2a program that exists will cease to exist within a two year period. it will be replaced by two visa
10:53 am
programs. chuck spell them out. a contract program to replace h2a and then at will portable visa program. there is a cap on both of 112,000 per year for the first five years. that totals 300,000 plus. the secretary of agriculture in the future sets the cap. is phased outte and replaced by this new soon as-- as one year after the effective date of passage. has not been easy to put together and i appreciate the senator's comments, but i want him and others to know that we tried to figure what you were aiming at.
10:54 am
compensating for it in terms of making the kinds of changes that would have a stable work force out there for farmers. we in my staff are prepared to take comments from each state that have come in with respect to the need. we have 100 copies and we have made it available to anyone who would like to provide additional information, but i think that every state is in here. it is as close to coming to a national crisis with respect to retaining this country's agricultural prowess as anything. farmers cannot farm because they consistent supply of workers. that contractors, they do not know what to pay them. i sat next to a woman who operated a turkey farm in california. between the wage rates and the high price of corn because of
10:55 am
for business.d to shutow that should not be the case in the united states. we think we have a solution to that. let me go to the question. whoever would like to answer this -- this bill would require legalployers to ensure a work force at some point by using e-verify. very controversial when it comes to the agriculture. employers with more than 5000 employees would be required to than twoify no more years after regulations were published. agricultural employers would have to comply within four years. secretary, janet napolitano, shared with this committee in february that the united states citizenship immigration service recognizes the needs and unique nature as
10:56 am
a pilotd has developed program to test the use of e- verify i and agricultural settings. i am waiting to receive an update from dhs on the status of this pilot, but let me ask you this problem -- this question, chuck connor, is dhs working to test the e-verify program with other groups? >> i am not aware of anything at this point, but we can provide any updates by surveying our membership for the record. i will just say that we appreciate the fact that in the legislation there is a recognition of the small business aspect of american agriculture and the fact that producers are moved, if you will, somewhat to the back of the line in terms of being fully enforceable, because we do have new proams up and running
10:57 am
and we recognize that there will be glitches here and there, but ultimately the goal is to have a program for every farmer, no matter how small, that they have access to the workers that they need without incurring enormous expense that we know they simply cannot do. >> let me ask everyone here -- ms.ro, a shock -- chuck, easton, i do not know you as well as the other two, please work with dhs. this is conoversi w there are bumps in the road that we will have to work out, but we should get done as soon as we possibly can. the chair is not here, but i will say it to the ranking member. senator, i believe that hour after hour, week after week, we have done the best we could to put together a bill that would
10:58 am
satisfy your concerns and also enable farmers in america to get a consistent supply of ag workers. so, i hope that this will be possible to pass, even un- amended. this has been a negotiated agreement over a substantial period of time. mr. connor, i know that you represent the american farm workers year, as well as members of chief, dairy, and others as well. turo, there was a former world no. union in this. you -- for workers' union in this. you were really outnumbered by farmers, you held your own and i think you got good protection for your workers. i think he really were for the best interests of the union movement and of the work force
10:59 am
of this country. thank you and i would like to recognize senator sessions. the chair is back. >> thank you. >> thank you. conversation, it seems to me, as we deal with this. i believe the interest and needs to be protected is the national interest of the united states, the thexi wages have been pulled down by a large flow of labor into the country. for example, the last 10, 15, maybe more years, wages have not kept up with inflation and america. an economist at the federal
11:00 am
reserve in atlanta says as a result of the growth in the sharocumented workers come at the annual earnings of the average undocumented worker in georgia in 2007 declined 2.9% or 900 and $60. -- $960. i would say it is interesting we have union members and businesspeople, they need and reach agreement and this is somehow presumed to be the interest of the united states. i would reject that fundamentally. intd west did i am also dubious about the idea that there are jobs americans will not do. i worked construction in alabama sun, hauling lumber. i know americans do that every single day. it is tough work. it is done every day. when weas a raised, talked about how we should think about that, we were taught to respect people who did hard work and not to say it is a job in
11:01 am
american will not do. any honorable labor is good. the last jobs report showed 400 86,000 people dropped out of the only ife, we determined it does that only his retirement, where is only 88,000 jobs were created. kinds ofbout these things. i think we need to ask that. it seems to me thart the ag industry are saying we are entitled to a certain number of workers, we demand those workers. and mr. rodriguez, this does have the long-term impact of reducing the salary of those lend -- who entered lawfully, those who get legalized today, immigrant workers, so their rages are at risk, too, as years go by. immigration policy should be
11:02 am
establd o national interest. we are establishin legislation and found a lot of surprising facts. i am not sure if the bill's sponsors fully it or not. but i think it could be proved vital to the -- legislation. we are going to have to look at a number of things. workers'rds to the ag program, mr. rodriguez, do you know how many people would be legalized if you do under this program? immediately? of the tension is, senator feinstein mentioned earlier, senator sessions, sewn the range tween 800,00o 1.1 million is our best estimate right now, the numbers that we know are here in the country. >> could some of those obtained legal permanent resident status and as little as three years?
11:03 am
>> no, sir. they could qualify but no one be of -- would be allowed to gain legal residency after five years. >> after five. the other people in the country would wait 10 years. we have been wearing 10 years -- hearing 10 years but agricultural workers would be able to get the status and five. is that correct? >> that is correct. >> it entitles them to certain benefits. >> you actually just gives them an opportunity to be able to won agriculture, to be able to and sure that he don't have to in any ular way fear anything from immigration services or anything of that nature. so, they will be able to stabilize their families as well as stabilize the agricultural industry. , under theuture agricultural act, immigrants that come to replace people
11:04 am
presumably who move on to other jobs under this provision of the act, they would come for what. of time -- period of time? how long would they be paying in the country initially? >> those currently here right now? >> no, in the future. >> in the future -- >> mr. connor wants to make sure he has all he needs to keep the wage rate at the level he wants to have them. >> let mr. rodriguez answer the question. >> i am letting him answer. >> a new visa program would atwithssues eeear ight now. like ms. eastman was talking about -- a dairy workers now included, a year-round crop. >> they would, at three years. would they be able to bring their families? >> no, they would not. three years, do they
11:05 am
have to go home or could they say? .> they have to go home for a of time -- >> how long is that? for the adsessions, will and contract guest workers, they are eligible for a three- year work visa. they are eligible for one renewal of that visa, so that would combine as a total of six years. during that six-year period, they have to spend any minimum three months, if you will, back in their home area. >> over three years -- how many months at home? three months. , so a person could stay for six years, they get pretty deeply attached to this country in that period of time. are you going to ask them to go home then? well, to follow on to that, obviously -- >> will you ask them to go home at the end of six years? >> yes, they would no longer be eligible, because they could
11:06 am
only get two of those three-year visas in that period. >> my time is up, but i do not -- we would be hunted down those people -- >> trying to provide time for everybody. senator schumer? >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to thank you for your continued leadership, support of, can't thank you enough for considering the bill as a group i would like to make a few general comments and link it into ag. as an initial matter, i would like to point out that our immigration bill has received widespread support and praise among law enforcement, business groups, labor unions, religious leaders, conservative thought leaders and immigration groups. it is no accident that all of these folks were standing with us last week as we introduced the bill. this is not just a few narrow special interest. tse are some of the leading ps that represent tens of
11:07 am
millions of people in america. , the onlyer hand witnesses who are willing to testify against the bill today are three individuals from the so-called center for immigration studies, an organization whose stated goal is to reduce immigration to the united date and who invented the concept of self deportation. 1070, theor of thesb- controversial arizona law which was so far to the extreme it was stricken down as unconstitutional by the supreme court. union,ead of the ice which has been an outspoken critic of immigration. to call the groups -- as my good friend from alabama does, special interest, and have these three who are far now or were, more special interest and in fact has opposed any immigration reform for a very long period of time is not right. these three are not mainstream witnesses. the american people are overwhelmingly in favor of
11:08 am
immigration reform. that is what every poll says. nope. and will not be satisfied with calls for delays and impediments. i would say to my colleagues -- and i understand their views are heartfelt -- the chairman has a very open process to review ways to -- if you have ways to improve the bill, provide amendments. and those who point to the terrible tragedy in boston as, i would say, an excuse for not doing a bill or delaying in many months or years. am i never said that. i never said that. >> iever said you d, mr. chairman, i don't appreciate -- >> >> the meaning the witnesses who have come here. .> let me finish we are going to have probably the most open process on the desk here there will be debate in the committee. we will have time for it.
11:09 am
-- senatorator grassley knows, i even offered some extra time on this. keep on. we will have the debate. i suspect we will have a lot of debate. >> i thank you. i was not intending -- those remarks were not aimed at anyone on the committee or the three witnesses. there were people out there, you read it in the newspapers, who said it. what i am saying is, if there are things that come up as a result of what happened in boston that require improvement, let's add that to the bill. because certainly our bill tightens uphings in a way that would make a boston less likely. changes in the exit-entry sent -- the system of visas, requiring the 11 million people here to register. all of that make it a tighter bill. maybe it should be made tighter still. we are open to that.
11:10 am
that is all i am saying. i heard lots of calls on people out in the country saying delay it. what our bill does, very simply, is add billions of additional dollars toward border security and border fencing, tracking immigrants who overstay their visas so they can be apprehended, and reforming our immigration ports to expedite asked -- deportation of dangerous individuals. individuals currently here will have to register with the government, give photos and fingerprints. although of that would make amerr thats what i am saying he. so, the status quo has none of these things. therefore, no responsible person should be aiming to keep the status quo in order. let's move forward. let's have this debate. le isn en debate. 's discuss all amendments from all points of view, but let's not keep our present system, which everyone admits is broken. on agriculture -- i just want to thank senator feinstein for her great work, and senator hatch, and the members of her
11:11 am
group. they have done an amazing job. i think the three of you. you are a good example of what we need in america, which is people coming together. none of you got everything you wanted, but you knew you to did a lot better than the present that is quote. that happened in agriculture, and i hope that will happen in the bill. my next question for ms. eastman is very quick, because my time is about to run out. vermont's agricultural market is very similar to new york's. we have the same problems. we have a fellow in ontario county, one of the largest cabbage growers, who did not plant in the spring because he can't get labor to pick it up. huge amountsf cabb, huge number of jobs, huge amount of that the people are deprived of. this bill would rectify this situation and give him and many others the labor they need. good you just mention how the bill gets northeast growers competitive with growers from the rest of the country, and
11:12 am
why it is good for the northeast and new york? to ms. eastman. >> i would like to narrow it down to the fact that the bill does actually allow employers at an affordable rate to employ illegal workers. the way the h2a program is right now, with the paperwork, it is so difficult to comply with, and the wage rates are just exponential. the fact is, i will give you a quick example -- 1091 is the adverse affect wage rate in new york and vermont. say, apple producers. the wage rate in vermont now is aollaper bushel for hand- picked ciders and four new york, 60 two cents. there is no consistency. those are done by the prevailing wage survey. there is nothing overseen on that. no regionalization of wage great -- wage rates, housing, transportation.
11:13 am
it is very expensive. yet it does provide legal workers. it is difficult to get them here. and with united states department of ag facilitating the process, it will be transparent, i believe. they understand ag, the need behind it, and keep in mind, i would like to let mr. sessions know, senator sessions no, we do have employers who open up and they have to through the h2a program higher and he willing, able, qualified individual. anybody is mollified because in state of vermont we can't require experience. the department of labor says we can't require experience. we have orchards -- i invite you to come visit them in august -- they have everyone who applies start picking apple and they pick on trellis trees, the easiest. they do not have to climb a 20- foot ladder. one orchard in cornwall, vermont, they hired eight pickers, u.s., everybody who showed up and by week 2
11:14 am
there was one left and the one asked if he could work in a packing house. this orchard needs a 55 seasonal workers. when i say americans won't do the job, it is true. they are not doing the job. factors that all go into that. >> trust me, i know that orchard. she has stated it very, very accurately. cornyb -- senator gordon, again, i think i could cornyn, o t -- i apiate you being here tay and i understand there's only one place you should have been on friday, and that was texas. you have extra time because of that. curz who senator theed me -- cruz,
11:15 am
condolences, people grieving for those who lost their life. i want to use the time you have given me, mr. chairman, the 10 minutes -- i will probably actually reserve some of the time for the second and fourth panels with all due respect to the current panel, but i do have a brief opening statement. the bill introduced last week by the bipartisan group touches on nearly every aspect of our nation's immigration system. it is truly comprehensive, and a sense that it covers a wide range of complex and often controversial aspects of our immigration law. the bill contains major changes to refugees and asylum law, gutwprograms, attention policy, worksite enforcement, and overall permanent immigration, both in terms of family and employment-based immigration. i fully expect there will be a
11:16 am
healthy, and i hope, respectful debate about how we should address the 11 million to well million people who came into the country illegally or overstayed their visas in violation of the law. it comprises about 40% of illegal immigration, and the visa overstays. that is a conversation we cannot avoid and must not avoided, because it impacts our national security, public safety, and the health of our national economies. while engaging in that conversation we must not give short shrift to the scores of other critical immigration reforms contained in the bill, including the areas i just mention. those who ha rd the bill know that the legalization 12gram for 11 million to million people takes up less than 100 pages of the 840 ft.- page bill -- 844-page bill. what is in the rest of the
11:17 am
pages? it is important. it turns out quite a lot. much of it is at least as important to our national .nterest mr. chairman, we have had the bill less than a week, of course. we are still analyzing the scores of the major reforms it contains. what i want to say this to my friend who are part of the gang of eight -- this legislation makes a number of positive improvements to our immigration system. there are things to commend, both in terms of major upgrades to employment-based legal immigration and worksite enforcement. there are reforms in this bill that have the potential to boost innovation and job growth within the united baits. and there are reforms that will tourism spending and incentivize foreign investors and entrepreneurs to invest in u.s. companies and workers. i appreciate the attention given to the bill to expanding resources in improving
11:18 am
assimilation and integration of immigrants to our society, especially in terms of promoting english language and civics education. but there are and number of areas that this bill needs a substantial improvement in. for example, while well- intentioned, i regret that the border security elements all of those short of the sponsors' aspiration to protect the borders and maintain u.s. sovereignty. in fact, without major changes, the bill could do more harm than good. the bill set to what would superficially appear to be a worthy target of 90% rate along the southwest border. but based on our preliminary review, this 90% goal only applies to three out of the nind only two out of the five sectors in texas. , the border security provisions would necessarily mean border patrol will shift resources away in a preannounced fashion to most of the border
11:19 am
sectors to reach the goals for only a few. we could only imagine what the transnational criminal organizations that move drugs, people, and contraband across our border will do in response. in texascurity matters and along the southwestern border, and the bill does not add up quickly -- adequately provide for it, and i hope my colleagues will work with me to help get it right. i think we can do it. as i said, the bill is comprehensive but it is not exhaustive. in other words, some important reformre omitted that i think need to be included. for example, the bill fails to address the critical need for improvement at our land-based ports of entry,, especially along the southwestern borde the vitality of these s of tryit terms of security but also where the economic prosperity that legitimate trade and travel bring to our border communities and 6 million jobs in the united states.
11:20 am
we must use this opportunity to provide meaningful infrastructure investment to the ports of entry in order to reduce wait times for legitimate trade and travel. i am also concerned that the bill does not do enough to deal with the biometric exit requirement in current law. this is perhaps one of the most concerning areas of the bill because since 1996, there has been a requirement mandated by congress for an entry-exit system. unfortunately, while the entry system works well, the exit system is non-functional. i want to learn more about the rationale of why the department of homeland security has been unable to comply with this long standing mandate of the coinues to drag its feet intment implementing the law already on the books which requires a biometric exit. if we want to get serious about preventing another wave of visa over his days, we have to get
11:21 am
this exit system right. i remain concerned about the message in this sense by allowing individuals with a multiple serious criminal convictions to be eligible for legalization. a controversial proposition to oppose legalization or someone who, on top of their illegal entry or overstayed, was that of two nice the minor -- two misdemeanor drunk driving or domestic violence or child abuse offenses. it is an affront to the rule of law, i believe, to get the secretary of the department of homeland security the discretion to waive the bar and allow the illegal immigrant who committed 30 more types of these offenses to a pathway to citizenship. so, i look forward to th my colleagu o both sides of the aisle to fix that. i also worry that the bill's implementation will be frustrated by thousands of lawsuits unless we tie in of the administrative and judicial review portions of the bill.
11:22 am
finally, the bill falls well short of providing certain employers, particularly in the construction injury, with access to the labor force they need to run and grow their businesses. so, mr. chairman, i look forward to a spirited and respectful discussion of these issues. the challenge before us is to make sure we get all of this right. i reserve the remaining two minutes and 26 seconds i have. senator klobuchar? >> thank you, mr. chairman, thank you to the witnesses. as a state with a lot of agricultural workers, i am impressed with the work you've done and farmers union and farm bureaumr. rodriguez, your amazing work, that all of the organizations supporting this bill, is a tribute to your ability to compromise and see the bigger picture. i thought i would start to you, mr. rodriguez. i have been so impressed by your work. you can imagine that some
11:23 am
people still get concerned about what this could mean for american jobs, with the guestworker agreement. as someone with immense credibility in the labor more -- movement and others fighting hard to protect american workers, can you summarize why do you think this bill is is a good thing for american ag workers -- american ag workers. >> first of all, senator clover chart, the workers currently here in the united states, they will have an ample opportunity to gain legal status, first of all through the blue card program and secondly gain legal permanent residency. secondly, there is clear language in the bill that holds for no discrimination against u.s. workers. we had lots of discussions with employers with regards to that. they also were in agreement that they want to keep the experience farm workers that have the ability and the skills to pick. as ms. eastman mentioned earlier, it does not help with towels to be changing though
11:24 am
workforce and have rotating number of workers. we want to do everything we possibly can to maintain the stability here in the ag industry as much as we can. and so, legalization was our number one issue to try to deal with so we keep the workers that are here right now, even those professional workers, those skilled workers, in the agricultural industry. secondly, to put provisions in there that would not mean discrimination against the u.s. workers as the new visa programs are implemented. >> thank you. i have been hearing from ag producers about the problems h2a program and i am happy we will find a way with this improved program to help it work better. the endless rules involved with each can get pretty confusing. can eachneu explain what it is andprogram asem whether you think the bill adjusted these problems? >> i know your time is short,
11:25 am
senator. i will just kick off a view. -- kick off a few. 2ae wage rate part of the h- program. for your constituency, the fact that is strictly at will program which provides no value for year-round workers, so no use for the dairy industry at all. and secondly i would say the administrative bureaucracy of the program. small producers do not have the ability to hire consultants to navigate their way through an application process. >> that is for sure. can somebody explain why you think it is important you have been ag department oversee the guestworker program as opposed to the labor department? that as well. let me just say, a couple of different ways to answer that. certainly there is a structure alreadyn atlevel, but there is alsotualsb a in
11:26 am
every county in america. certainly every major agricultural county. these offices that producers have to deal with quite often. they are quite familiar with them. there are people in those offices who are we -- used to not only helping the producers but helping them navigate through this process. we believe producers will be quick to use that local system that is well established out there in america today. , i thought one of the most important parts of your testimony is when you talked about the indirect benefits really of the guest workers. fact that when they are here, and they have some kind of status at work, they will buy things in america and sometimes they use it here or ship them back -- motorcycles, washing machines, you name it. you also mentioned the positive impacts for her role with stores. could you talk more about these inour coity?acts you haven yes.
11:27 am
thank you, senator. one of the best times i have is at the end of harvest would have it back it struck that has its set free. the travelun by service. it is great, because when i get the listing of where it will go, the workers actually know before i do. it is like an underground tunnel. they can't wait. they get their bins together, whether they go to cosco or walmart -- motorcycles, weed whackers, washing machines -- all of it is shipped back, because they tell us it is cheaper for them to buy it here and ship it home. $200nessed them lay -- pay and it cost them $200 to get it home. a lot of the money they make here in the united states isn't spent locally here as well. >> thank you very much, all three of you. >> thank you very much. i am told senator leahy is next -- senator l is next. a brief stantnd then a up of qu
11:28 am
i recognize that the labor problems facing our article to industry aren't different in kind and those -- are different in kind and other industries and is critically important to our nation's economy. the nature of agricultural work, could deter even the hardest working of americans -- long, sporadic hours, distant and secluded worksite, nominal wages resulting in low margins for food products and the backbreaking physical labor itself all contribute to a relative lack of interested and -- interest and participation in these jobs by american-born workers, creating a sustainable guestworker visa is essential for keeping our nation's farms and ranches fully staffed. that is why i introduced the dash act, to expand access to the h-2a for additional category of workers and employers. addressing problems for agricultural workers and lawyers must be any part of esa
11:29 am
reform. i am glad that we are having this discussion this morning. i am wondering if i could start with the eastman. good you tell us a little bit --orof restate why you think h-2a is insufficient, particularly as it relates to some of these industries like harry farming and sheep herding? i can't speak to sheep herdingav bnot had direct access with sheep. as far as the dairy farming goes, it is impossible. we have two very farms who have h-2a, but they are there to repair thingand to work inquiries that will be used as pasture. it is not related to milking cows, which is simply an everyday function, at these farms. in part, it is not available -- >> explain to us why it is not. >> because right now h-2a is
11:30 am
limited to 10 months seasonal. if you are an employer -- that is limited to the employer. the employee can stay longer than that, but they have to transfer. so, one individual employer can only have h-2a workers on site for 10 months out of the year. >> what does not work for some of the areas? >> it is not based on a fiscal year -- you take apples, they come in, it is august, and they stay to pick, prune and packed -- they have to be gone by the end of may. >> in this bill, in your opinion, it addresses the problem? >> it fixes the problem because i think actually, mr. connor caa etter, the different types of -- mr. connor? >> it fixes the problem fundamentally by creating two different groups of the guestworker program. one would be the seasonal at
11:31 am
will, which would be, i suppose, the most similar to the current h-2a program, but the other is a contract program where, again, you would have the ability to bring in year-round workers on a contract, as you noted, to perform those milking functions, feeding functions on the farm, those kind of things, as noted earlier, the cows don't stop producing milk. they produce 24/seven, every day of the year. >> that is the nice thing about cowles, they are considerate in that regard. cows, they are considerate in that regard. do you see this as a long-term fix, or something you have to tinkle -- tinker with everyew , weo question, senator picture this as a long-term fix. this was fundamental to our coalition's efforts. we were not looking to come back and do this in a few years, because we know it is not going to happen. this has been a problem that
11:32 am
has been developing really since the mid-1980s, and we believe that the combination of the loot card program for our trained existing workforce and the viable guestworker program both at will and contract administered by usda provides a long-term access to the workforce among the legal workforce that you are going to need to continue to produce the crops in the food for america. >> can you tell me how the tax -- caps were, on the number available? visaere is a cap on the workers. year one, set at asou cote by some of the numbers, this was a product of a lot of negotiation and compromise by both sides in terms of setting the cap. another 112,000 would be year two and three the muscle by year three, the cap would be 337,000
11:33 am
workers. in no event cannot go above that years three and five, but then from year five onward, there would be no cap. the secretary of agriculture would be empowered then to set the cap based on the need of the number of guest workers in the country. >> that is why you see this as a long-term fix, because you are then allowing us to respond to changing economic circumstances rougthe department of agriculture question mark >> absolutely. >> i see my time has expired. thank you very much. >> senator franken? , mr. rm you i want to take a moment to respond to those who say that immigration is such com problem that we can't address it with a comprehensive approach. i believe the complexity of this problem and the connectedness of the issues involved in
11:34 am
immigration speaks to the need for a comprehensive -- for comprehensive reform. take, for example, border security. i know that border security is critical, and that is why i am very happy to see the strong provisions in this bill are in it. but if all you did was secured the border with a 10-foot wall, if there is still a market for undocumented labor, you would create this huge market for 11- foot ladders. -- youu need to verify need to be able to verify workers. connor, mr. redmeat is, first of all i want to congratulate you on working with each other -- mr. connor, mr. rodriguez, first of all, i want
11:35 am
to congratulate you on working with digital. mr. connor, one of the aspects delayedbill is the phase-in of the employment verification requirements. aquaculture employers are not required to participate in the e-verify -- agriculture employers are not required to participate in the e-verify program, five years after the passage of the bill. it will prove to be very important for farmers in minnesota. lots of our farmers run pretty small operations. it is gog take time for these programs to get up and nning. can you, mr. connor, identify why this delayed implementation of eve verify it is important for agriculture? , senatort question franken. i think the important aspects go to the heart of the program. that is, we really are creating ways,y ways -- in some
11:36 am
almost three brand-new programs. the blue card program, and then you have the year-round contract part of the guestworker program, and then you have the ad will part of the guestworker program. will part of the guestworker program. we know there will be bumps and bruises along implementation. this ensures that for agricultural production, which is so important in terms of timeliness, seasonality, that there is going to be a maximum amount of time here before the ee verifies system is kicking in and operational. so we can make sure that the three new apparatuses that are working, the caps are being sent in an adequate amount to provide the workers that we need. it gives time. remember, senator franken -- you know this, these are very small businesses out there on our american farms and ranches, almost by any standard. more than anything else, we want to make sure these are
11:37 am
small producers know the program, know what it takes to get the legal workforce here, before we get to enforcing this thing out on every single farm and ranch in america today. i think it is only fair. >> especially for these small operations. we need to make sure that the e- verify program has an accuracy among the higher accuracy rate .han it has now i am worried that as we introduce millions of immigrants into the system, the error rates tend to get higher when you do that. run a dairy ion and/th small business, for at matter, that you don't have a huge hr department like you might at other businesses. and so, i think this is just a very important that we
11:38 am
fitsstand how this all together and we do it with our eyes wide open. for me, it is absolutely essential that we do it at one everything is so interrelated. t thisery pleased wha is going to do for the dairy industry. half of all dairy cows in immigrant milked by labor. and i've f b fixed for years and lad th senator leahy made their efforts to do that. , whatr mind, mr. connor -- in addition to dairy -- and by the way, an the chairman said
11:39 am
cows are only going to milk you seasonably and they don't like it -- they do not know what they are saying. >> they do in vermont, maybe not minnesota. >> i know the chairman is a -- head, so no comment >> that will come back to haunt you. >> sorry, senator. >> at the senator finish his questions? >> i have no idea where it was. jeff, aside from dairy, wh -- wes ofs agreement well, agar have a problem in american agriculture today, reflected in the fact that so much of our work force is currently undocumented. for anything else that we have,
11:40 am
recognize that the problem exist today. so, the status quo is intolerable. it is across all of the agricultural sector. the notion that you are going to give us the ability to actually have a legalized workforce that we know is legal, that we can verify that, farmers and ranchers are some of the most law-abiding people on this planet. they want to have access to those workers. they want them to be legal. and more than anything else, i think fundamentally this bill gives us that ability to be legal. it is huge. because the status quo, again, -- what are the alternatives? i challenge those to suggest that. the current system is broken. we've got to change it. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. >> i thank the chairman and i thank the witnesses. youst want to thank all of and senator feinstein for
11:41 am
working so hard to get an agreement here. we will work cap informed -- those of us working on the broader agreement, on the progress made and the hurdles you had to overcome, and it is not an easy task. congratulations for working together on this and getting this done. launchedoned when we the broader bill last week, i grew up on a farm. working alongside migrant labor. i know the motivations that they have. i know how difficult it is. and i know that they were here to make a better life for themselves and their families, and for the life of me i have never been able to place all of those who come here across the border, undocumented, in sort of ao me that w. so, want a solution here. farm work is tough work. i made it off the farm with almost all of my digits. it lost the end of one in an
11:42 am
alfalfa field. i got themell you -- politics largely because of milking cows. you can't tell them, we are not going to milk you today. it does not work and i have tried. it does not work. but i appreciate what you have done here. mr. connor, i appreciate working with you when you were at the usda on other issues, and i appreciate the work you have done. let me just say, in your experience, i know you have been working on a solution for ag for years now. why is that so difficult and why is it important to have this as part of the broader bill and why is it easier as part of a comprehensive package or at least possible? i know you have beorn this. why has no-- 't it been possible to achieve on its on? >> senator, you are absolutely correct -- this is not a
11:43 am
realization that has come about just in the last few months. we have known we've had a problem for a very, very long time. and we have worked with senator feinstein on solving just 's problem for a very long time as well. i would just say that history suggests that that did not work, that the agricultural problem in and of itself probably was not going to produce successful legislation. so, being a part of this comprehensive effort -- again, our negotiations have been limited to just the agricultural piece, but we appreciate the fact that it is part of the broader package. there seems to be some momentum to get something done this year. beeation or a very, very long time, because this has been a problem for a long time. what ieve 2013 reflects have described to many as the best chance in a generation to
11:44 am
stop talking about it and to finally fix it. >> can you just go on with that? if we failed to reach an agreement here and there is no agreement just with the subset of agriculture, what would the consequences be? how much of our industry do we stand to lose if we can't reach agreement here? areell, the consequences substantial, senator. some of those i put in my opening statement. but again, the status quo means that a large, large percentage of the american workforce -- doing nothing means a large percentage of the american workforce will continue to be undocumented workers. to thethis is untena american pror out er that somehow we cannot get him do have labor shortages in this country. and it is resulting in crops
11:45 am
going unharvested. it is resulting in agricultural production. and i cited the case of the california study of tens of thousands of acres moving to another country. that pattern will continue if we don't fix this problem. >> in the remaining seconds -- some would argue if we don't have a foreign labor force, it simply means more jobs for americans. but how does the lack of a program like this affect u.s. jobs or american worker jobs? >> several have raised this point, and perhaps arturo has a comment, too. i know time is running out. this issue has been studied and ednar feinstei has been personally involveder trate -- are we replacing u.s. jobs here? are there people who would do this but are just not paying enough or something is wrong
11:46 am
and therefore we are turning to these foreign workers? it has been proven time and time again, study after study, several cited in my written testimony, that is not the case. they will not do this work. ,nd without this workforce again, food production will go off sees and crops will be left unharvested in the >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i will note that the outset i regret i was not able to be here at the hearing on friday. i join my colleague senator -- joined my colleague senator west, texas, visiting with the victims of that accident and i want to thank my colleagues in the millions of americans will have lifted up
11:47 am
the citizens of west to have been suffering through that tragedy, both west, texas, and obviously boston have both in the past week had horrific tragedies, and all of us are lifting up those who lost their lives, their families and loved ones, and the many who are injured and suffering. so, i am grateful for the great many prayers for the citizens of west and their suffering. thent to thank each of three of you for being here you're very able testimony and your hard work and commitment to immigration -- before your very able testimony. and i want to thank all the members of the so-called gang 8 who have worked very hard on this difficult issue to try to reach a solution to a very difficult problem. and so, i commend the efforts of the four democrats and four republicans who have worked very .ard on this i think there is in or miss
11:48 am
agreement in this country that our immigration system right now is broken. i think that is bipartisan agreement. i think it is across the country. i think there are huge challenges. i think those challenges are particularly acute in the agricultural area. and i will note, for me, this is that is not simply abstract. i am crowd, a son of an immigrant who came from cuba with nothing and to be a grandson of an echo cultural worker. i grandfather worked in the sugar canes on a plantation in cuba under very difficult circumstances. -- and i would note would like to commend the senior senator from california for this very substantive report that she has put together. i think it is very well done. and i think it very effectively tells the story of how the current system is not working. indeed, i made the point of reading the section on taxes --
11:49 am
texas, and what is contained there very much is what i have heard from farmers and ranchers throughout the state. agriculture is critical to my state, as it is to her state, and i suspect the state of every member in this committee. i think all of us would like to that fixes the broken immigration system. and i would suggest -- and my view, the strategy that will be effective to pass a bill is to focus where there is a wide bipartisan agreement. that is how we will actually get a bill passed. and in my judgment, there are two broad areas where there it is bipartisan agreement right now. number one, i think there is bipartisan agreement that we've got to get serious about securing the border. that we need to increase manpower, that we need to increase technology, that we need to fix the problem.
11:50 am
in a post 9/11 world i think it does not make sense we do not know the criminal history in the background of those coming in, and i think there is wide agreement that we should fix that, including the problem of visa overstays. i think there is likewise wide bipartisan agreement that we need to improve legal immigration, that we need to streamline it, that we need to reduce the bureaucracy, reduce the red tape, reduce the waiting periods. ou today are the diffes h-2a of the existing h-2a h-2a system and having the system work. and one reason we see illegal immigration at the levels we do is because our legal immigration system is not working effectively. all behink we should champions of legal immigrants making the system work, and not
11:51 am
just welcoming but celebrating legall immigrants -- immigrants. i think if we are going to see an immigration reform bill pass, that should be the focus of the bill. i think if instead the bill includes elements that are -- and i would note i do not think there is any issue in this entire debate that is more divisive than a path to citizenship for those who are here illegally. in my view, any bill that insists upon that jeopardizes thlikelihood of passing any immigration reform bill. , it i that passing a bipartisan bill addressing areas of common agreement -- securing the border, improving legal immigration and making sure we have workers who are here out of the shadows able to work
11:52 am
legally, i hope that that reform legislation will not be held hostage to an issue that is deeply, deeply divisive, namely a pathway to citizenship. and my view, that is how we get something done, we focus on areas of agreement, not on areas of disagreement. and i hope that over the course of consideration, we will see some consensus come together to do exactly that. thank you. , senator cruz. senator graham? >> i will pick up from where my friend from texas -- incentives. having dealt -- consensus. having dealt with this 50,005, i think think we are reaching consensus. the first consent of we reached is the current system is not working. if you are worried about amnesty, that is exactly what we have. we have 11 million people roaming around the with really no way to find out who they are under the current construct.
11:53 am
senator cruz is right, if you are trying to access legal labor it is incredibly hard to do. the visas ran out, it is to come located. i think most americans believe the status quo will not work. they want the borders secured. there is consensus. very few people in this country who think border security is not a good thing. of thea control -- 40% people here illegally did not come across the border, they overstayed their visas. all the hijackers on 9/11 were visa overstays. if boston tells us anything, we need to be aware of who is living among us, whether tir on a v we caned n be t our own people. so, there is a consensus about border security, a consensus the status quo should be be placed. i think there is a consensus about what senator cruz said, a guest worker -- with this caveat. where senator sessions and i join forces. i do not want a foreign worker
11:54 am
commented country and take a take a job from a willing american worker. the only time i want you to be able to hire somebody, mr. rodriguez, is when an american worker will not do the job after you advertise at a competitive wage. until you get the system kind of under control, we really don't know. almost noere nativeborn workers in agriculture? is it because the work is too hard and we have moved on as a people? is it because the wages are too low and most of them are your legal immigrants? we won't know until we get water out of chaos. i think the other thing people have come to rips with -- where senator and i disreed- the 11 million are not going to go and most pele are ok with a pathway to citizenship -- it i earned. if you don't cut in line in front of those who were patient waiting. if, as a condition for staying here, you have to go through a criminal background check, you have to pay a fine.
11:55 am
if, as a condition of staying here to become a citizen, you have to learn the language. and hold a job. and we are talking about a 10- year minimum before you can even apply for a green card. and the conditions on the pathway to citizenship are you have to learn the language, you have to pay a fine for the crime he committed, you have to go to a job.nd check and i think most americans would say that is a practical solution. and most americans like me do not want to deal with this 20 years from now. and my goal is to in this debate and get it right. we did not get it right in 1986. when it comes to the agricultural community, mr. connors, do you believe most people working in agriculture are noncitizens? re: illegal immigrants? >> senator graham, i believe statistics to verify that the numbers are somewhere between 60% to 70% of the agricultural
11:56 am
workforce are undocumented. >> why is that? mr. rodriguez, do you agree with that? >> yes, sir. >> why is that? >> i think you pointed out some of the reasons. you set the current systems that are in place are not -- >> employers cannot get enough legal labor because there are limits on the visas and it is complicated and expensive. you agree with that? >> yes. >> everybody said yes. ,nd it appears that meatpacking poultry, agriculture, some of these more labor-intensive jobs, that it is hard to find labor in this country? do you agree with that? , senator, let me just respond. i am not here representing the meatpacking industry but the six categories, if you will, of agricultural workers out there and there is no question i wholeheartedly agree with that payment, that you cannot get
11:57 am
americans to do this work. >> here is the question. if you pay them $40 an hour, you probably could, but nobody would be left in american agriculture -- they would go to mexico. , in mye to find a way view, to replace our -gricultural workforce to 60% 70% your legal and everybody should be legal. no benefits our economy having a bunch of illegal workers in any part of the economy dominate from that part of our economy. what i think we have done in this bill we try to strike a balance, senator rubio and feinstein, in my view, have done a good job, to be placed the illegal workforce with a legal workforce good one last thought -- just indulge me for a second. ensh ciz has to three triggers. there has to be a border security strategy created by homeland security before the pathway to citizenship can be fully implemented. you have to have you verify up
11:58 am
and running. and you have to have enter and exit control visas before people can transition from temporary legal status to get a green card. i think those three triggers make sense. if this committee can make those triggers more effect if, if senator cornyn can help us on the exit visa system, count me in. securean find ways to the border better, count me in. at the end of the day, i want to make sure we not have a third wave. and getting the agriculture part right, 60%-70% workers in agriculture illegal, seems to be a good place to start. i would like to compliment the authors of this part of the bill, say you have done a good jo l -- let's make it better, if we can. >> thank you. that's it. i want to thank -- >> i know -- i have been whether chairman has been, as
11:59 am
chairman of the committee and we have to move on. but i do want the record to show that we were hoping to have a second round, so we will submit our questions for answers in writing. >> i appreciate that. i am looking at the number of witnesses would have today. it is going to take some time. of course, we will have another panel tomorrow with the head of homeland security. rodriguez,hank mr. mr. connor, ms. eastman, for being here. each one of you have been a very, very helpful in putting this together. in putting this together. and i wentnto than -- wanted to thank senator feinstein and others for working so hard in the agricultural part of this. would like to make a
12:00 pm
final point, go ahead. >> i want to thank the committee for all the hard work in the senator for all the due diligence in this. one closing thought. i think what we tried to do here in working together over the past few months and years is to really do something that

87 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on